Comments on: New York vs. the Bay Area

By: Eric Nehrlich, Unrepentant Generalist || California, here I come || August || 2008

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:36:58 +0000

[...] is probably not a surprise (especially after my New York vs. the Bay Area post), I have decided to move back to the Bay Area next [...]

By: Jacob

Jacob — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:10:57 +0000

Don’t forget Washington – the power capital of the world, where people go to rule absolutely everything. It’s revolting.

By: Eric

Eric — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:01:49 +0000

Another difference for my own reference. New York: “single women outnumber single men by more than 210,000.” Bay Area: “single men outnumber single women by roughly 65,000″

By: zephyr

zephyr — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:10:38 +0000

Interesting thing about moving to NY to rule the world, or at least, the industry that one is in. I actually stumbled upon your blog when searching about giving up certain things and moving to New York.

I’m a late bloomer in my career, and just finished graduate school. I feel like I’m at the crossroads. I can stay where I am and wait it out a bit to progress. BUT, I’ve been thinking about moving to NY ever since the first time I saw the city (um, 8 years ago). Now, I’m thinking I’m willing to compromise supposed career goals and just take a job that won’t necessarily be a progression. I won’t rule the world, but I just might be happier.

By: capm.cook

capm.cook — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:24:26 +0000

I disagree with some of it but even so this is a great post. You at least do a good job of delving into the cliches about SF and NY (I’ve lived in both cities for over 5 years at a time), even if the generalizations don’t quite match up with reality in every instance. For example, I am a proud SFer (actually Berkeleyan) who works occasional 15 hours days. This is not because I want to rule the world. It is because I work in advertising and the only way I can afford the cost of living in this area is with 15-hour days.

If I might make a few generalizations of my own, I also think that another big difference between the two cities is nightlife. SF tends to have less bacchanalian craziness (I mean SF NOW, not in the 70s) than parts of New York. For example I’m going to be out to the east coast visiting some Sexchester friends on Father’s Day weekend; there is some crazy gin party at the Prophecy in White Plains they are taking me to. Out here in the west that kind of heavy-party stuff seems harder to come by, even in the gay community, but that’s part of why I like it better. Then again maybe I’m just not looking in the right places.

Now if I could just move to Boston for 5 years, and then maybe Chicago I’d be SET…

By: Jessie

Jessie — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:38:37 +0000

I think normally the goal of the PhD is to *gain* knowledge, not demonstrate it. Again, the point of academia in this context is to gain and work with in-depth knowledge in a particular field. When you see that as a waste of time spent sucking up to the authorities, you’re just saying that you (generically) don’t want a PhD. If you’re ready to say everyone else is wrong by the end of your second year, why stay in the program? You can “speak your mind” almost any time you want. What you’re talking about is trying to redefine the field, and it’s really not productive to do that very often–just like little startups don’t redefine “computer science”.

What I mean by “startup mentality” is mostly the idea that everything should be fast fast fast and new new new and very shiny and show results right away. That’s death.

it is nearly impossible to spend that long a time using a given worldview without adopting that worldview unquestioningly

Maybe you mean something different than I do by “using a given worldview”? But if you just mean, doing work that doesn’t explicitly challenge a given worldview, then I think that’s bullshit.

By: Wes Carroll

Wes Carroll — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:12:11 +0000

I’m in the middle of a big life/career shift at present, so forgive me if this seems scattered.

I agree with the thesis that cities have characters. I agree with Graham’s characterizations of NY vs SF. I also agree with yours; they seem quite compatible to me.

My response to these issues is to simply arrange to spend some time in each of these cities, absorbing their characters to a degree… by which I mean strengthening the parts of my social network that specifically feed into those those characteristics.

I love having thoughtful friends, risk-taking friends, wealthy friends, good-looking friends, and so forth. And since my friends are pretty far-flung, why not spend a little time in the places where various friends get to play to their various strengths?

By: Eric

Eric — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:20:21 +0000

Jessie: Maybe I’m misunderstanding something. To get tenure, one first has to earn a PhD to demonstrate knowledge and participation (5 years minimum). If one is lucky and gets a tenure-track position immediately, it’s another 5 years of publishing before earning tenure. Many people have to do at least a post-doc or two before getting the tenure-track position. So I thought it was more like 10-15 years of participating in the field as it currently exists before earning the right to say what’s on one’s mind. That’s a long, long time (or so it seemed to me). And I would argue that it is nearly impossible to spend that long a time using a given worldview without adopting that worldview unquestioningly, as the assumptions implicit in that worldview become accepted as truths (shades of Kuhn).

I should also note that I’m biased, since the value of academia is, as you say, in creating a community of specialists, and I am, as the title says, an unrepentant generalist.

I think I’m also not understanding what you mean by the startup model or mentality. Is it the idea of starting something new without really understanding what expertise currently exists?

By: Rebar

Rebar — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:15:09 +0000

Boston is about tradition.

Did somebody say, “tuition”?

(No idea what you’re talking about. Utter nonsense.)

By: Jessie

Jessie — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:59:31 +0000

Well, sure, there are people who are totally unwilling to spend a few years demonstrating that they know their own field in detail and can participate in it as it stands. Those people will find it hard to get tenure. But why would they want to? The value of academia is that you have a community of colleagues with specialized knowledge in your field. If you think everything they do is wrong and you have a burning desire to start proving that straight out of the gate, “college professor” is the wrong job.

There are many problems with the way tenure works, but in my experience they have to do with the move towards the startup model, not away from it.